Inclusion That Actually Sticks

Joanne Lockwood

Tags: inclusive leadership, Neurodiversity, Blind Spots, personal growth, leadership development, Organisational Change, cognitive diversity, Authentic Communication, Team Dynamics, The Enneagram

From Blind Spots to Superpowers: Unlocking True Inclusion in Team Dynamics

Susan Drumm explores the art of embedding lasting inclusion by uncovering invisible team patterns, leveraging the neuroscience of leadership, and channelling the transformative power of music to foster curiosity, empathy, and authentic growth.

In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Joanne Lockwood and guest Susan Drumm explore what it takes to make inclusion truly “stick” within organisations. Together, they investigate how blind spots can shape team dynamics and why curiosity, rather than resistance, serves as the real agent for personal and organisational growth. The conversation covers the value of diverse cognitive perspectives, the pitfalls of entrenched viewpoints, and practical tools such as the Enneagram for building trust, equity, and better decision-making in teams. Listeners will gain insights into the subtle ways habits and unspoken patterns influence inclusion, and how music and neuroscience can help leaders rewire unhelpful beliefs and unlock authentic change.

Susan is a renowned leadership advisor and coach, known for helping organisations turn diversity into everyday performance by embedding inclusive habits that foster trust and voice equity. Based in Scottsdale, Arizona, she brings a global perspective, having lived in London and worked with multi-sector teams across healthcare, tech, and financial services. Her gift lies in spotting the invisible patterns running teams and translating complex neuroscience into actionable, repeatable habits. Susan is also the author of The Leader’s Playlist, blending her passion for music with the science of transformation, and she hosts The Enlightened Executive podcast, where she interviews leaders about their journey towards enlightened leadership.

Joanne and Susan discuss the critical role of language in creating inclusive communication, the dangers of confirmation bias—exacerbated by AI—and the necessity of balancing empathy, curiosity, and authenticity. Using practical examples such as music playlists and leadership typologies, they illustrate how leaders can shift both their own and their team’s patterns, even in the face of imposter syndrome, burnout, and generational differences. The episode also examines common pitfalls in leadership teams, from missing creative voices to strengths that can become liabilities if left unchecked.

A key takeaway from this episode is that sustainable inclusion is built on intentional curiosity and active engagement with diverse perspectives. Listeners are encouraged to look beyond surface-level solutions, embracing practical tools to reframe their mindset and make long-lasting change. Tune in for a thought-provoking discussion that will both challenge and inspire anyone interested in creating authentically inclusive workplaces.

Published: 14.05.2026

Recorded: 27.01.2026 Episode Length

Duration: 0:47:11

Shownotes:

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Clips and Timestamps

Your Blind Spot is Someone Else’s Superpower: “And so if I’m arguing it’s blue, it’s blue, it’s blue, and you’re arguing, no, it’s green, it’s green. The model starts to show why that’s the case and how actually they’re your best friend in terms of growth because they’re looking into the area where you may not see what’s possible.”
— Susan Drumm [00:05:15 → 00:05:34]

Viral Topic: Understanding Team Dynamics
“We make up reasons for why people do the things they do, but that’s based on our own drive of motivation.”
— Susan Drumm [00:09:38 → 00:09:46]

Viral Topic: The Power of Diverse Leadership Styles
“There’s nine different types of leadership styles and each have. They’re based on what you’re motivated to look at. Right. And each have a superpower and each have a liability that comes with them.”
— Susan Drumm [00:11:44 → 00:11:56]

Viral Topic: Filling the Gaps in Team Leadership
“So I think with that type of backdrop, this is where we get teams to be higher functioning. So that it’s not to say, okay, you absolutely have to hire for every single, but recognise where the gaps are, that what’s present in the team and have someone do their best to sort of play that part.”
— Susan Drumm [00:13:15 → 00:13:37]

The Power of Cognitive Diversity in Decision-Making: “And what I find is then that the best teams are cognitively diverse teams because they’re representing these different perspectives and they’re making better decisions as a result.”
— Susan Drumm [00:14:18 → 00:14:30]

The Power of Curiosity and Neuroscience: “there’s real neuroscience behind looking at the world in this way and, and so, but it also allows people to recognise in themselves that they don’t have all the answers. And that’s the way you start to get curious about like, well, you know, I don’t have all the answers. Let me, let me ask some questions about people who see the world differently.”
— Susan Drumm [00:15:40 → 00:16:03]

Viral Topic: The Neuroscience of Music and Leadership: “Music is incredibly powerful because it allows you to build new neural pathways more quickly and so allows you to create that new perspective both about yourself and about others by harnessing that power.”
— Susan Drumm [00:22:18 → 00:22:31]

Viral Topic: Workplace Inclusion and Executive Collaboration: “And of course, from her perspective, she’s like, I’m the chief marketing officer, I need to know about these things in order for me to be effective.”
— Susan Drumm [00:24:55 → 00:25:02]

The Power of Creative Personality Types in Teams: “But when we do find them, they play in a key role in the team’s performance, particularly being able to translate whatever it is that their goal is into like the why, what’s the purpose and meaning behind what we’re doing? And if anything, I would say the younger generation, they need to hear that. And so the type 4 is particularly well suited to help making that translation and understanding the why behind what the Organisation is trying to do the way.”
— Susan Drumm [00:36:28 → 00:37:00]

Discovering Your Superpower: “I’ve got a simple free quiz there that will start to illuminate what might be your superpower and liability. But the fun part comes after because what we’ll do is we’ll send you based on how your responses are the chapter in the book that most relates to that.”
— Susan Drumm [00:43:28 → 00:43:49]

Definition of Terms Used

What is the Enneagram?

Definition: The Enneagram is a personality framework that identifies nine distinct leadership styles based on underlying motivations, perspectives, and patterns of thinking and behaviour. Each type has its own inherent strengths (superpowers) and liabilities (blind spots).
Relevance: In the context of inclusion and team performance, the Enneagram helps leaders and organisations recognise cognitive diversity, uncover hidden patterns that may limit growth, and develop more effective, inclusive teams by ensuring a variety of viewpoints are represented and valued.
Examples: Using the Enneagram to build a well-rounded team may identify a lack of “Type 6” (loyal sceptic), prompting the group to intentionally consider risk mitigation in decision-making.
Related Terms: Leadership development, Cognitive diversity, Leadership styles, Team dynamics, Blind spots
Common Misconceptions: The Enneagram is sometimes mistaken for a simple personality test or horoscope; however, it focuses on deep motivations driving behaviour, not superficial traits. Inaccurate online versions often lack validity, so expert-led or research-based assessments are necessary for meaningful insights.

What are Blind Spots (in leadership and teams)?

Definition: Blind spots refer to the aspects of oneself or one’s team that are outside of conscious awareness, often related to perspectives, assumptions, or areas of inexperience that can impact decision-making and relationships.
Relevance: Addressing blind spots is critical for leaders aiming to foster inclusion, as it enables greater understanding of diversity, reduces unconscious bias, and supports more holistic and effective problem-solving.
Examples: A team comprised mainly of risk-takers may overlook potential threats because they do not consider risk as a priority, thus lacking the perspective a risk-averse member could bring.
Related Terms: Unconscious bias, Self-awareness, Team composition, Perspective-taking
Common Misconceptions: Blind spots are often assumed to relate only to weaknesses or incompetence, but they can also arise from overused strengths or habitual patterns of focus. They are a natural aspect of how humans process information, not a personal failing.

What is Cognitive Diversity?

Definition: Cognitive diversity describes the inclusion of people with varied perspectives, thought processes, problem-solving approaches, and mental models, often derived from differences in backgrounds, experiences, and training.
Relevance: Cognitive diversity is essential in creating innovative organisations and inclusive teams, as it broadens the range of available ideas and solutions, reduces groupthink, and leads to better decision outcomes.
Examples: A product development team with members who approach problems analytically, creatively, or from a risk-management perspective will produce more robust solutions than a homogenous group.
Related Terms: Diversity of thought, Neurodiversity, Team diversity, Inclusion
Common Misconceptions: Cognitive diversity is sometimes conflated with demographic diversity; however, it specifically refers to differences in how people think and process information, not just surface-level characteristics like age, gender, or ethnicity.

What is Empathy Accuracy?

Definition: Empathy accuracy is the ability to precisely understand another person’s perspective, thoughts, and feelings, particularly in contexts of conflict or stress.
Relevance: Empathy accuracy is a fundamental human skill, increasingly valued in leadership as artificial intelligence takes over logical tasks. It is vital for inclusive leadership, conflict resolution, and effective communication.
Examples: During a heated meeting, a leader accurately senses that a colleague’s objections stem from concern for customer wellbeing, not resistance to change, enabling a more constructive dialogue.
Related Terms: Emotional intelligence, Perspective-taking, Empathy compassion, Relationship management
Common Misconceptions: Some believe empathy accuracy means always agreeing or sympathising, but it actually entails understanding another’s viewpoint, even without concordance or emotional involvement.

What are Leadership Playlists (in mindset transformation)?

Definition: Leadership playlists, as coined by Susan Drumm, refer both literally to curated selections of music and figuratively to the habitual patterns of beliefs and self-talk that influence a leader’s emotions, behaviour, and performance.
Relevance: Deliberately updating one’s “playlist” can disrupt limiting beliefs, support emotional regulation, energise behaviour change, and embed new, more empowering narratives for leaders and teams. Music is used as a tool to reinforce positive mindset shifts and break unhelpful patterns.
Examples: Replacing a personal playlist of “I am excluded” with “I bring peace and appreciation” and supporting this new belief with uplifting songs to reinforce the mindset shift during challenging days.
Related Terms: Mindset, Neuroplasticity, Behaviour change, Self-limiting beliefs, Music therapy
Common Misconceptions: Some assume that using music in leadership development is superficial or unrelated to actual change, but the approach leverages neuroscience to create lasting shifts in neural pathways and behaviours.

FAQ: Specialist Terms from the Episode

What is the Enneagram? — A personality system with nine leadership types focusing on motivations and team inclusivity.
What are Blind Spots? — Areas outside leaders’ conscious awareness that affect inclusion, decisions, and team effectiveness.
What is Cognitive Diversity? — The range of differences in thinking styles and problem-solving approaches critical for innovation and inclusion.
What is Empathy Accuracy? — The skill of precisely understanding others’ perspectives, vital for inclusive leadership and conflict management.
What are Leadership Playlists? — Habitual patterns of belief (supported through music) that shape leaders’ mindsets and can be intentionally transformed for inclusive practice.